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Subject: Pending civil action, Williams VS Sky Harbor HOA

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Edward Williams
Posts:14

05-06-2008 11:38:39 AM	Alert
On April 24th at 10:00am I submitted a written request as a member of the Board to review the financial documents to generate a report for the members of the Association. That request and every request since has been blocked by Sherri Lindsay and the other members of the board. I will be filing a civil case in Snohomish County no later than Thursday, May 8th for possession of the books as well as a large punitive settlement aimed at punishing the Board for blocking access to legal records that all members of the Association have access to. I will settle for simply possession of the documents and removal of Sherri Lindsay from her position as Treasurer in order to save the Association, of which I am a member, the financial hardship. I recommend that all members of the Association contact Ray Ford and Sherri Lindsay demanding the release of the financial records as is required by the HOA governing papers in order to avoid a costly court battle.

Edward Williams
Posts:14

05-14-2008 10:14:53 AM	Alert
Update: On May 7th the Board met in person to clear up this issue and Scott Fleming notified me he had obtained the documents and was making copies. Raymond and I have been out of town, but I have been notified the documents are ready to be delivered for a nominal copying fee of $104. Since this matter has been cleared up without the need for legal intervention I'm happy to accept the documents and do not feel that further action is needed, and thank Scott for jumping in and handling this. I'll update the status as soon as I have possession of the documents..

Edward Williams
Posts:14

07-10-2008 01:48:39 PM	Alert
Ray mentioned I forgot to post that I received them. I am now in possession of my copy of the financial documents. I'll get to the report as soon as I have some free time. If anyone's interested in a copy please let me know.

Greg Lindsay
Posts:9

07-17-2008 11:17:50 PM	Alert
Hi, I'd like to clear something up. Ed has some false statements above. He was never blocked by anyone - particularly my wife Sherri - from receiving documents he requested. Sherri provided access to financial records online almost immediately, and for some reason this wasn't good enough. He also wanted hard copies of the financial documents. My wife also has a full time job and I'm afraid that Mr. Williams request is less important than that. Instead of dropping what she was doing and running down to make copies for Mr. Williams, she scheduled the task when she had time away from her job. Since she typically works 60-80 hours a week and is under a great deal of stress, there is not much time. However, Mr. Williams harassed my wife to the point that she could barely do her job, threatening lawsuits if his demands were not met on his timetable. Finally, some others stepped in to help appease Mr. Williams extremely urgent demands. Mr. Williams has had the documents in his possession for many weeks now. However, I understand he hasn't had the time to review them. I wonder if the harassment and threats that he made were really necessary. I haven't felt the need to reply to this post because I thought perhaps Mr. Williams might decide to remove these statements from the HOA forum. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I feel it is necessary that I provide my account of these events. It is really sad that we have people who behave like this in our association. My wife and I, and other members of the HOA have done absolutely nothing to deserve such treatment. In fact, all we have done is volunteer our time to try and help the community. Greg Lindsay

Edward Williams
Posts:14

07-18-2008 03:38:13 PM	Alert
Thank you for your imaginative response Greg. Let me present facts to counter your imaginative posting: April 23rd - I requested a copy of the finacial documents in order to do a review. I didn't receive a response from Sherri. April 25th - Sherri emails the board asking for their permission for me to do a formal report. Raymond ford says no audit can be performed without board approval. I disagree, mentioning I will find the passage in the CC&Rs. Raymond responded with RCW Chapter 64.38.045 concerning a public formal audit. I point out that this is a personal audit permitted by paragraph 2 of that RCW. My request included the text: "Sherri, if you could let me know when a good time would be to pick up all of the documents I'll make copies and return them to you. That way you don't have to take excessive time out of your schedule and I can spare you the temporary out-of-pocket expense." That doesn't sound like "harassing" to me. Regarding your point "and for some reason this wasn't good enough. He also wanted hard copies of the financial documents", this is clearly covered by paragraph 2 of RCW 64.38.045 which states: (2) All records of the association, including the names and addresses of owners and other occupants of the lots, shall be available for examination by all owners, holders of mortgages on the lots, and their respective authorized agents on reasonable advance notice during normal working hours at the offices of the association or its managing agent. The association shall not release the unlisted telephone number of any owner. The association may impose and collect a reasonable charge for copies and any reasonable costs incurred by the association in providing access to records. It's also in our CC&Rs. All members have a right to copies of all documents. April 26th - Sherri sends an email ackowledging my right to request copies of the documents and asks for a detailed description of items I'm requesting. I respond with a list of documents I would like copies of. Sherri responds with a request for the board to review the documents as a group with the entire board and officers present. April 28th - After multiple emails back and forth I notify the board that if I do not receive copies of the documents I will file a lawsuit to force compliance with state law. Sherri responds that my demands for copies are unrealistic. April 29th - I respond that I didn't care when I received them so long as I'm given a realistic date to expect them. I quote May 6th as an OK date. Raymond responds and asks Sherri to get me the documents. May 7th - No further action or notification of action is made in obtaining the copies as required by law. I have notified the board of my intent to sue previously and have set May 15th as the filing date. An emergency meeting is scheduled for the board for May 13th. Scott calls and he notifies me he'll be taking the copies to Kinkos and making a copy for me. May 14th - Ray and Ron drop off the copies at my house. That's the high level timeline. I have asked many times for copies of any emails that were threatening, insulting, contain implied assualt but nobody has ever been able to produce one. I on the other hand have plenty of emails from other board members and officers referring to me as a "Sack of shit", "pathetic excuse of a man", "asshole", etc. It seems Scott and I are the only ones to be able to have a civil conversation in email. I have endured continual insults from board members for simply requesting documents for which it was my right as a member to possess. I have never been insulting in my emails. If anyone has acted badly it has most definitely not been me. If anyone reading this posting would like copies of any documents proving anything I've said feel free to request them. I have copies of everything to back up my statements.

Greg Lindsay
Posts:9

07-18-2008 09:11:03 PM	Alert
Ed, Some of the people involved in this issue have rightly become upset. That is normal when you start conversations by quoting regulations, making demands, and threatening lawsuits. Do you honestly expect a different response? Just the fact that you would even consider a lawsuit against your neighbors over such a minor issue speaks volumes about you. My wife was afraid to even go to your house. I am sure you don't believe that is your fault, but even you have noted that several people have very strong feelings against you. I suggest that you think about why that is true, unless of course you enjoy making enemies.

Edward Williams
Posts:14

07-19-2008 12:19:53 AM	Alert
So people should get upset if I quote the regulations they are ignoring, demanding my rights, and threatening lawsuits if my right to view the financial documents is not granted? I'd welcome any evidence to support any reasoning behind your wife being afraid. If any of these people that have very strong feelings against me had any it would have been made public long ago.

Greg Lindsay
Posts:9

07-19-2008 10:21:49 AM	Alert
Yes Ed, people do and should get upset when you talk to them through demands and threats. Quoting regulations is a particularly coarse and impersonal thing to do. Frankly, it made my wife feel that she was being accused of embezzlement. What then makes all of this even more insulting is that you got the information and did nothing with it. Again, I think this is really unfortunate because we've enjoyed working with the HOA for a couple years. I think the HOA has the potential to do a lot of good for the community, and we sort of need that now with what's going on with the economy. It also has the potential to turn sour. I think you are not helping the community with these types of actions.

Carl Dimock
Posts:62

07-21-2008 08:27:29 PM	Alert
Ed, One thing you have also forgotten is that the RCWs and the Bylaws allow for viewing of the documents. It would be ludicrous to suggest that the originals be handed over to anyone in the membership who asks for them. There would be no accountability for lost documents in that scenario. You have the right to request and pay for copies (which you have done). Earlier on, you often requested that the books be handed over for you to browse. Then you would say you'd settle for copies. Then you'd demand the oringinals again. It was hard to follow. The fact is that Sherry felt uncomfortable with you coming over to her house to look at the origninals. That's why she suggested the viewing in a board meeting. She also felt uncomfortable handing over the entire financial book, which if also perfectly valid. So the copies were made for you and handed over. In Sherry's defense, she did set you up with access to the financial records as recorded in Quickbooks Online. It is a record of all the transactions. If there were inconsistencies, the easiest thing would have been to question a particular transaction or two and get your questions answered. As it is, you haven't follow through with your personal audit yet. During the board meeting at City Hall (4/23/08), you were empowered by the board to complete the audit to bring before the whole board. Then it was to be released to the members. You've had the records for 2 months and 1 week. I know you've been busy, but "enquiring minds want to know". About law suits: I have seen recent emails that flying around about a possible libel suit. Although the RCW is written in such a way as to include any insult, you should look at case law and the legal defiinition of libel. In all definitions, libel is: a statement of fact, known to be false. And that does not include stated opinions. If someone accused you of beating your dog, and it wasn't true, then you might have a libel case. If someone says "I hate Ed, and he's a disaster of a person", that doesn't constitute libel. Also, for a person to threaten a libel lawsuit if he's "removed from the board", sounds pretty close to extortion, which is also against the law.

Edward Williams
Posts:14

07-23-2008 11:52:35 AM	Alert
As a member of the board it is not unreasonable to expect to view the originals. There are only 3 board members and 2 officers. When I was not allowed to view the originals without the board looking over my shoulder I made the request as a member for copies. I disagree with the wording of your statement about the meeting on 4/23. This was never to be the annual report required by the RCWs. This has never been done in the past and still has not been discussed as a regular work item. In the meeting I was asked why I wanted the documents, what I was looking for and why. I said it was to get an accounting of how our money was spent. I agreed that I would let the Board view the report before I sent it out and explain any inconsistencies. I was never "empowered by the board" which implies a task assignment. I simply let the Board know this was not an attempt to discredit anyone and that I'd ask for input and Board review before I sent anything to the Association. I agree that Sherrie granted access to the Quickbooks right away. However anyone that has a checking account knows that looking at your bank statement only shows the totals and where they went, not the detail required to show what the money was spent on. The only way anyone can get that information is to view the receipts and previous meeting minutes to see not only what was reimbursed but also if it was approved by the board. I'm very aware of the definition of extortion (RCW 9A.56.130). This isn't anywhere close. However Libel (RCW 9.58.010) states any statement "(1) To expose any living person to hatred, contempt, ridicule or obloquy, or to deprive him of the benefit of public confidence or social intercourse..." constitues Libel. Emails being sent by Board members and officers both to the Board and conversations that have been brought to my attention by members of the Association include lies and exaggerations constructed for just that purpose. I have in hand is a letter from Mary discussing a letter to be mailed to me telling me I've been kicked off the board. Apparently they later realized this requires a vote from the Association. I imagine this is why the sudden interest in furthering this thread on the web site. Isn't it about time that everyone stops harassing and degrading me to others like a bunch of school children? It's been 2 months since I demanded my right to view the financial documents and this banter has been a continual nuisance. I hope that if anyone in the Association has actually been following this thread they can see how violently access to the financial records is defended. Perhaps everyone's right, I should do the report and see why this is. The Board, both present and past, should make an attempt at being professional and move past their bruised egos and accept that everything I've done I've had the right to do. Will every member who requests the documents be forced to endure constant ridicule and harassment?

Greg Lindsay
Posts:9

07-23-2008 05:22:58 PM	Alert
Hi Ed, I've asked you to do the report, so please don't pretend that you've somehow discovered something untoward and everyone is worried. I want to be very clear. Here are the three things you have done that I feel are unjustified: 1. You demanded documents, and when asked why you needed them, you responded by quoting regulations instead of providing an answer. Edit: you did say you wanted to audit the docs, which is assumed. The question is why. 2. You threatened a lawsuit against the HOA because people weren't responding to you quickly enough. 3. When you finally got these documents, you did nothing with them for over two months and counting. I feel this is insulting and improper behavior. Because it comes from a board member, I believe it is also dangerous to our community. I feel the danger is that the HOA will be viewed as something negative rather than a positive influence. Potentially, the HOA might be disbanded and the neighborhood will either become unregulated or we will lose control over its regulation as well as the fees that we pay. You have not shown me that you are concerned about our community. As a member of the HOA, I think it is my right to have board members in place who want to do good for the community, not engage it in legal battles. You have rights as well, and one of them should be not to be ridiculed, so I apologize for anything and everything that I've done to insult you. However, I stand by my belief that you are not someone that should be on the board of directors. You may be a very good researcher, but nobody is good at everything and this may not be your cup of tea. -Greg

Edward Williams
Posts:14

07-24-2008 09:55:47 AM	Alert
Once again, let me respond to your points: 1. I don't recall you asking, but I did tell the board I'd be auditing the documents. If I would have seen something glaring it would have been handed over to the District Attorney by now. 2. I don't need a reason to view the financial records or do an audit. No member of the association does. It's our right and duty to keep on eye on our money and see how it's been spent. 3. I prepared a lawsuit for possession of copies when it was apparent, through a long thread of emails, I would not be allowed to view them without the board and officers in the same room looking over my shoulder. 4. What I do with the copies is my business. I am under no obligation to do anything with them. I said I'd let the board review any report I planned to publish. 5. Nobody has yet been able to explain how forcing the board to give me copies of the financial documents is insulting, improper, or dangerous to the community. 6. I will not engage in legal battles so long as the board follows the laws of the state and its own bylaws using common sense and equality. 7. Thank you for the compliment.

Greg Lindsay
Posts:9

07-24-2008 06:01:32 PM	Alert
What I find difficult to understand is how you can justify your statement that you plan to involve the HOA in "a costly battle" and still insist that you are looking out for my best interest as a homeowner. Rather the opposite. If you were really so concerned, you would have reviewed the documents by now, and long ago. Whatever reason you had for harassing my wife and then posting a threatening message to this forum remains a mystery, but it most certainly wasn't for the common good.

Admin HOA Revolt
Posts:97

07-24-2008 08:19:18 PM	Alert
To everyone who has contributed to this thread: Enough is enough. This discussion is only dividing our neighborhood. We need to be neighborly, and forgiving of each other’s short comings. Any personal feelings need to be communicated privately, not on a public forum which is a permanent record of this association. Please do not continue to contribute to this public thread, take if offline in private discussion if you have to. But please try to make peace. Sky Harbor is a great community to live in, let’s keep it that way. Regards, Webmaster

Tim Johnson
Posts:3

07-24-2008 08:31:44 PM	Alert
PLEASE stop the childish games! If you want to play these games, please use another avenue to do it with. We all want to live here in peace and enjoy our nice neighborhood WITHOUT all the politics. Lets use the HOA as a means to keep our property values up so we can all benefit from it. Homes are the single most important investment you will ever make and I personally do not like the idea of people playing games with my money for no good reason! STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tim Johnson 13916 Dogwood Court

Greg Lindsay
Posts:9

07-24-2008 11:19:13 PM	Alert
I have submitted a formal complaint regarding this issue.

Larry Longnail
Posts:8

12-17-2009 04:04:50 PM	Alert
Well, well, well sky harbor. It's been months since I've scene anything going on in your little screwed up berg in the wonderful City of Sultan. I haven't noticed anyone out with signs on the street corner for quiet some time now. I haven't herd about the wonderful Mayor Esslic being involved or should I say being accused of being involved in any dirty pool in Sky harbor. Interesting that the ends of a few of the streets are kind of dark these days to. Where has everybody gone? Or should I ask where the trouble makers are these days? There was a rumor that a Mr. Martin and the Chief of Police had their fingers in the pot to. Maybe they noticed the dirt under their fingernails and turned tail? Well either way powerful people like that are only good for something on an election year, so they can lie out in the open. Come on Sky harbor can you put up anything news worthy? Something that might want to cause some of your neighbors to fight or threaten each other. How about going after a job or two. That was an interesting theme you idiots had going for a while. One of you were screaming like a child about being attacked. A few of you bottom feeders were waiting for a piece or two to drop so you could parade around with it hanging out of your mouths. Maybe with the economy the way it is you might be able to get rid of one guy’s job and fill it with another that needs one for a short time? No more signs, no more meetings, no more people threatening each other. You people have gone soft or realized what arses you all were and put your heads back in the sand in shame. I DON"T THINK SO! You fools are too stupid.... Wake up Sky harbor! Its winter and I need some entertainment for next few lonely cold months (burr). Who would have ever thought there would be a neighborhood like your P.O.S. built so I could have enjoyment at this level? From City of Sultan Officials to you bottom feeders involved. Good by for now and remember. Larry says; just laugh a little you fools. Larry

Larry Longnail
Posts:8

02-27-2010 08:04:28 PM	Alert
Nothing like good O'l HOA business!! http://www.komonews.com/news/local/85744947.html PUYALLUP, Wash. - Tensions are rising in the search for missing Puyallup native Susan Powell, who disappeared after dark Dec. 6 under mysterious circumstances. Volunteers are frustrated after the fliers they posted about Susan in her husband's neighborhood were torn down. Now the president of the Country Hollow Homeowners' Association has made them take down the rest of the fliers, which are designed to raise awareness about Susan's disappearance. "The regulations of the community do not allow any posting of signs on community property," he told the volunteers. "As the president of the association, I have to tell you." Colleen Russell and her friends taped the signs to light poles and put up purple ribbons on trees in the gated community where they live. "I don't think the homeowners' association understands that that was Susan's favorite color," Russell says. "We're not accusing anything - we just want to find Susan and bring her home." Susan Powell Investigators say Josh told them he took his kids camping in subfreezing temperatures around midnight on Dec. 6, and that his wife was missing when he returned the next day. Susan and Josh are both from the Puyallup area and Susan's in-laws live there. Joshua Powell (AP Photo/The Salt Lake Tribune, Chris Detrick) The volunteers feel defeated, and they wonder why Josh Powell isn't asking the homeowners' association to make an exception to the rule, since it is his wife and she's missing. KOMO News tried to interview Josh Powell about it, but no one would answer the door at the house where he is staying. A man's voice inside said Josh was not available. Susan Powell's father, Chuck Cox, is disappointed the fliers have to come down. "I still have hope, and I can't deny it's been almost three months. And the likelihood now is if she is not being captive somewhere then she is no longer with us," he said.

Larry Longnail
Posts:8

03-16-2010 11:09:30 AM	Alert
Here is a little story of somthing you might be intrested that happend in King county. Looks like Edward might have been on to somthing, I wonder why it took so long to get those books from the Lindsay's ? http://www.seattlepi.com/local/416728_condo15.html Charges: Capitol Hill condo board member took neighbors for $1,000s 'What I did was unforgivable,' man says By LEVI PULKKINEN SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF The former treasurer of a Capitol Hill condominium complex is facing felony theft charges on allegations that he stole more than $80,000 from his neighbors. Charged in King County Superior court, Thomas L. Maccarone, Sr., 68, is accused of embezzling the funds from the Maison Ville Condos homeowners association during four years on the condo board. According to charging documents, Maccarone wrote dozens of checks to himself using the association account meant to keep up the building, located in the 1700 block of Melrose Avenue. Prosecutors contend the alleged thefts were discovered when Maccarone was replaced as treasurer in March 2008. Those who replaced Maccarone found the association's finances in disarray. After investigating the shared account, they determined Maccarone -- who has since moved to Palm Springs, Calif. -- was using the account to pay personal bills. After his former neighbors filed a civil suit against him, Maccarone wrote a letter to the court claiming he could not afford to defend himself in the civil action and admitting he'd taken the money. "In answer to the plaintiffs' claim, I am guilty of the charges," Maccarone said in the letter related to the civil suit. "I wish I could go back and undo everything that I did, but I can't." He claimed to be destitute -- "My assets are a 1992 auto, social security and personal belongings, not much to show for 69 years of living" -- and offer to take out a life insurance policy that would repay the association upon his death. Maccarone went on to fault the association for failing to require an annual audit, and to apologize for his actions. "It was not my intention to hurt anyone," he said, according to the handwritten letter. "These are good people and they treated me well. What I did was unforgivable." Asking that Maccarone be returned to Washington and jailed, Deputy Prosecutor Jennifer Petersen noted that Maccarone had left Washington. "While the defendant has minimal criminal history, he has fled the state to California," Petersen told the court. "He told members of the board of the Maison Ville Condo complex that he did not have money to come back to Washington to deal with this case." Maccarone has been charged with four counts of first-degree theft and five counts of second-degree theft. He has not yet been jailed in the case. Levi Pulkkinen can be reached at 206-448-8348 or levipulkkinen@seattlepi.com. Soundoff (11 comments, Hide/show comments) What do you think? Posted by J.R. Dobbs at 3/15/2010 5:47 p.m. (Report violation) If I knew I would never get audited, I'd do the same thing. Only thing being that I'd help myself to a little more than 80 grand. Posted by sane and simple at 3/15/2010 6:50 p.m. (Report violation) I got a great punishment for those who get caught stealing from people like this. Make them pick up litter in Haiti or work a soup kitchen in Somalia. Let them ... more Posted by DaveTheDude at 3/15/2010 7:13 p.m. (Report violation) The root of all evil is the love for money. People like Dobbs are a menace. Get a rope. Posted by RichlandJoey at 3/15/2010 7:21 p.m. (Report violation) Sounds like Dobbs will be a candidate for the legislature. Careful folks, the Democrats are already robbing us blind - here comes another one. Posted by DaveTheDude at 3/15/2010 8:48 p.m. (Report violation)

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